Overdrive
(superposter)
4/6/01 07:13 PM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113576
/ re: 113550
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Flours are so underated.They are a very important peice of equipment in any gro-op.They can be used from sprout through to harvest and IMO are the best for cloning.Cool whites do emit blue spectrum and warms more to the red.For veg a combo of 2 cools and 1 warm is best and for flower 2 warms and 1 cool is best.Used with the proper grow techniques they can produce some fine bud.I will and always have had flours in my grows..IMHO..PEACE
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CannabisUrungus
(journeyman)
4/6/01 08:37 PM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113599
/ re: 113576
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I did a little bit of research so I would have some evidence to back up what I said, and came up with this article:
http://www.aquabotanic.com/lightcompare.htm
It is very informative, so I suggest everyone interested in lighting read it. The article was written with aquarium plants in mind, but the information still applies quite well to growing weed.
My theory about warm whites being the best was incorrect. They do emit slightly more red light (which is good), but at too much of an expense of blue. I was incorrect because I assumed that plants used red and blue light equally; they actually use the blue end of the spectrum most, and for this reason the daylight bulbs are the most efficient (but only slightly).
I still maintain that cool whites emit most of their light in the yellow part of the spectrum, so there is still a lot of wasted energy. The spectragraphs on the page will show this (if you can decipher them).
In conclusion: Daylight tubes are the most efficient, followed by cool white, then warm white. Given that cool whites are usually the cheapest, they are probably the best choice. All this talk about mixing warm white with cool whites is probably nonsense, since warm whites are least efficient with respect to the photosynthesis action curve.
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PurpleDurban
(member)
4/7/01 00:13 AM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113641
/ re: 113599
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Did the photosynthesis action curve compensate for plants that flower? Flowering plants require light in the red part of the spectrum (and quite a bit of it) in order to reach their maximum flowering potential. This would suggest that mixing cool whites with warm whites is not only not nonsense, but necessary for the best results. This is why HPS is better for flowering than MH. Whether or not it benefits plants to have red flouros in veg, however, is a matter of opinion. I have raised outdoor starts under flouro systems a number of times. The plants seem to do about the same when the lights are 0 cool white as when they are f.7 cool white and 3.3 warm white.
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PurpleDurban
(member)
4/7/01 00:19 AM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113642
/ re: 113641
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Why do numbers always come out weird? I was saying that the plants seem to do about the same in vegetative stage whether you use all cool whites or a third warm whites/two thirds cool white.
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luckman
(journeyman)
4/7/01 04:26 AM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113656
/ re: 113599
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I dont understand Mr Urungus. Where are you getting this information about photosynthesis action curves and their affect from cool and warm whites? If this is true prove it to me. You were a newbie in all this 3 weeks ago, whats going on? You sound like a phd in Light all the sudden. :-)
LuckMan
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luckman
(member)
4/7/01 06:16 AM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113663
/ re: 113656
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Forgive me, I see where you get your info. Duuhhh.
LuckMan
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CannabisUrungus
(journeyman)
4/7/01 09:50 AM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113701
/ re: 113663
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If anyone is still confused, just look at the "PUR Total uE/s" value on the chart.
"PUR: obtained by weighing the photon spectrum with an "average" photosynthesis action curve. The Total column lists the sum of all photons in the range 400-700nm weighted by the action spectrum. Since there is no clue in these figures about the relative amount of red and blue photons, I also computed PUR in the 400-500 nm range only (blue) and 600-700 nm range only (red)."
Here are the total PUR Ue/s for the common tube types:
Cool white: 20.5
Warm white: 18.1
Daylight Deluxe: 23.2
Cool White Deluxe: 22.4
Warm White Deluxe: 21.4
I found it strange that the deluxe tubes rated better, since they have a lower lumen output. Many grow guides even say not to use deluxe tubes. I think the reason for this is that the photooptic curve (what you can see with your eye, and what the lumen is based on) and the photosynthesis action curve are very different. For example, a normal human eye can see green better than any other color, while plants use very little green light for photosynthesis (that's why plants are green-- they reflect green light instead of absorbing it). In other words, lumens are not a very good guage of a lights worth.
By the way, where did everyone get the idea that warm lights are best for flowering? I haven't seen any evidence for or against this claim. Was there some sort of study conducted, or is this just conjecture?
PS: I'm not claiming to be any sort of expert. I'm just reporting back what I've read. Anyone can do a little bit of research...
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luckman
(member)
4/7/01 01:25 PM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113738
/ re: 113701
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I get into details as much as anybody, hell I write software for a living for chrissake. But why you want to try to disapprove a long held, accepted and APPLIED theory with these numbers is beyond me. Just a month ago you were a newbie in all this like me trying to discover why your leaves were yellow. I hope to dog you have more than one source for all this, and I dont mean links off the main page you found. In the end I need demonstrable proof of what you say, not a bunch of numbers and a url. A web page can say anything it wants. Raise a few sets of plants to a few inches tall with different lights and tell us what happens. That would be a compelling argument.
Once again, and I'll quit saying this eventually, I'm challenging you but not insulting you.
LuckMan
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PurpleDurban
(member)
4/7/01 01:33 PM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113740
/ re: 113701
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The application of warm, soft and merchandiser white flourescents has been a tried and true method of flowering plants for years. Just ask Frank, Rosenthal et.al. Though these bulbs do contribute a good measure of red or near red light, HPS does better (even though it emits a pink-orange light). Even better than that is a combination of HPS/MH(more natural spectrum-but mostly blue band) But if you are using only flouros, then it is all about these three types of tubes-(combined with a bit of cool white or daylight). I don't know if you can use only red spectrum flourescents for flowering though-but I think it is impractical.The main reason warm whites, et.al. work well in all phases (and especially combined with some blue light) is that sunlight is so intense that it can saturate plants in the red and blue bands, even though much of its energy is concentrated in the middle bands (green and yellow)-which are of course way less important to plants. Since what indoor horticulturalists are striving for is to emulate the sun, the most efficient way to do so in terms of cost, effort and efficiency, is to saturate as much as possible at both ends of the spectrum (red and blue). Though in vegetative growth the need for warm whites is debatable, it is not debatable as to whether they are required for flowering. As for them being the "best", I guess that is a matter of opinion. In terms of flourescents it is very possible that they are...but one thing is for sure and that is that they work, and work well.
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nightrunner
(stranger
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4/7/01 04:30 PM
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Re: florescent grow experience
[Post#: 113778
/ re: 113183
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I don't crunch numbers, and I don't know a damn thing about photowhatever curves.What I do know is COOL WHITE=BLUE and WARM WHITE=RED.I have been useing these for 25 years.The best mix thatI've found is to alternate the two in a 1 to 1 ratio.The trick is getting them as close together as possible.I usualy cut the wings on those discount store reflectors leaving about an inch on each side depending on manufacture.I then pop rivet them together.I can get up to 60 watts per foot this way.When this is done the light reflectors will start to form a circle.Don't worry about that, they are only sheet metal and will easily bend when you want them to.I recamend a rivet for each foot of reflector length to give them support and add sturdiness to the light system when it's done.After they are all together (6 sets are normal).I Don,t cut the two reflector "wings" on the outside of the light bank.I drill a hole in each end of these to hold a section of threaded rod to hold the light bank in a very gentle arch.The ends of the rod also gives me a place to fasten chain for raising the system.Some discount flouro lights don't hold the bulbs very well and are a pain in the ass to work with.BUYER BEWARE!!! Yes;I also use M.H.and H.P.S.but fluoresents realy"shine"for cloneing and veg also does a damn good job for SOG when flowering is induced early with clones.I do hope some of this babble helps somebody.
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